1 00:00:24,820 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:31,370 --> 00:00:27,769 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:34,190 --> 00:00:31,380 episode number 106 put that away it's 4 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:34,200 not Christmas yet episode number 164 5 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:36,690 although I can't wait oh I like 6 00:00:41,209 --> 00:00:39,450 Christmas it's good fun good fun buying 7 00:00:45,770 --> 00:00:41,219 lots of presence at the moment for all 8 00:00:48,020 --> 00:00:45,780 the nieces and nephews I got a wonderful 9 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:48,030 book I'm like I guess science 10 00:00:53,779 --> 00:00:50,610 experiments for my one of my nephew's I 11 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:53,789 think he's going to enjoy that is having 12 00:00:58,849 --> 00:00:55,680 a skeptic for an uncle there you go 13 00:01:02,900 --> 00:00:58,859 episode number 164 for the tenth of 14 00:01:05,690 --> 00:01:02,910 December 2011 Richard Saunders here from 15 00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:05,700 Sydney Australia today on the show we're 16 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:07,320 going to be talking with dr. Rob 17 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:10,770 Morrison now dr. Morrison Australians 18 00:01:15,590 --> 00:01:12,450 will remember was one of the guys in the 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:15,600 curiosity show a fabulous science show 20 00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:17,490 for kids and how to make things and how 21 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:20,430 to do things in years past speaking to 22 00:01:25,820 --> 00:01:23,250 him today about an article he wrote for 23 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:25,830 the punch online the punch calm today 24 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:29,430 you entitled this is the dawning of the 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:33,090 new age of superstition he's quite 26 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:37,130 worried about the encroaching quackery 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:40,590 quackery and particularly worried about 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:42,450 the chiropractor's that's coming up 29 00:01:47,569 --> 00:01:45,290 first interview on today's show 30 00:01:50,870 --> 00:01:47,579 following that we've got a very strange 31 00:01:54,770 --> 00:01:50,880 saved segment sent to me by someone 32 00:01:56,810 --> 00:01:54,780 claiming to be Brian doughnut not sure 33 00:01:59,719 --> 00:01:56,820 about this one but I think thought I'd 34 00:02:01,999 --> 00:01:59,729 better play it yeah segment coming up 35 00:02:04,780 --> 00:02:02,009 with Brian doughnut it's in the middle 36 00:02:06,889 --> 00:02:04,790 of the show and to wrap up the show I 37 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:06,899 interviewed at a good old friend of mine 38 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:08,489 and a good friend of the skeptics own 39 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:11,610 doctor Paul Willis dr. Paul Willis who 40 00:02:15,580 --> 00:02:13,310 until recently was 41 00:02:18,339 --> 00:02:15,590 one of the front men of the ABC TV 42 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:18,349 science show catalyst now he's working 43 00:02:24,790 --> 00:02:21,530 at the Royal Institution of Australia in 44 00:02:28,030 --> 00:02:24,800 Adelaide bringing science to people and 45 00:02:29,979 --> 00:02:28,040 people to science is their motto we're 46 00:02:33,509 --> 00:02:29,989 going to find out what he's been up to 47 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:33,519 and the work of the institution and 48 00:02:41,229 --> 00:02:37,730 speaking of maynard which we weren't may 49 00:02:43,449 --> 00:02:41,239 not as you know is going to be at tam 10 50 00:02:47,289 --> 00:02:43,459 in las vegas well that's the hope that's 51 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:47,299 the plan tam or bust las vegas or bust 52 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:50,090 for me nod if you want to help Maynard 53 00:02:53,979 --> 00:02:52,370 you can always simply chip into the 54 00:02:55,900 --> 00:02:53,989 skeptic zone because a lot of that money 55 00:03:01,050 --> 00:02:55,910 will go to help may not get that plane 56 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:01,060 ticket or you can bid on Maynard's 57 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:06,769 classics 95 to 2000 double CD set along 58 00:03:13,089 --> 00:03:10,910 with a signed copy of skip tied 3 by 59 00:03:15,670 --> 00:03:13,099 Brian Dunning signed by Brian Dunning 60 00:03:18,130 --> 00:03:15,680 and yours truly Richard Saunders because 61 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:18,140 I wrote the foreword both those items 62 00:03:23,349 --> 00:03:20,810 are up for bid as a sort of double set 63 00:03:26,199 --> 00:03:23,359 now if you follow the links from the 64 00:03:27,550 --> 00:03:26,209 skeptics own web page or you subscribe 65 00:03:30,190 --> 00:03:27,560 to our newsletter you can easily click 66 00:03:32,979 --> 00:03:30,200 on the links there or if you go to ebay 67 00:03:36,759 --> 00:03:32,989 just run a search for Maynard classics 68 00:03:38,710 --> 00:03:36,769 and skipped I'd three autographed by 69 00:03:40,660 --> 00:03:38,720 Maynard Dunning and Saunders yes 70 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:40,670 everything's autographed Maynard's 71 00:03:47,530 --> 00:03:43,280 double CD sets autographed by Maynard 72 00:03:50,550 --> 00:03:47,540 and skip tides autographed by Brian and 73 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:50,560 myself that's how you can help may not 74 00:03:58,180 --> 00:03:56,690 get to Tam in Las Vegas it's always a 75 00:04:01,180 --> 00:03:58,190 plane flying over when i'm recording 76 00:04:04,059 --> 00:04:01,190 this folks like i live near the flight 77 00:04:06,910 --> 00:04:04,069 path and it's quiet all day all day I 78 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:06,920 price you and i start to record for the 79 00:04:13,449 --> 00:04:10,130 skeptic zone and something there's one 80 00:04:15,190 --> 00:04:13,459 now I think it's really gone it's still 81 00:04:17,620 --> 00:04:15,200 there maybe it's circling maybe they 82 00:04:22,060 --> 00:04:17,630 knew I was doing this I'm going to go 83 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:22,070 away and ponder that I am and I'm not 84 00:04:26,629 --> 00:04:23,450 even going to have a drink this week 85 00:04:28,879 --> 00:04:26,639 because I'm that sort of guy 86 00:04:31,369 --> 00:04:28,889 you can go why don't you all run 87 00:04:35,059 --> 00:04:31,379 downstairs grab a drink of your favorite 88 00:04:58,270 --> 00:04:35,069 whatever it is run back upstairs and we 89 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:01,670 and we have dr. Rob Morrison on the line 90 00:05:07,190 --> 00:05:04,410 now hello Rob great hi yeah I'm doing 91 00:05:09,650 --> 00:05:07,200 really well so it seems a bit of a 92 00:05:11,750 --> 00:05:09,660 hornet's nest has been stirred up with 93 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:11,760 the article which has been published at 94 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:14,610 the punch calm day you by yourself 95 00:05:20,870 --> 00:05:18,060 entitled this is the dawning of the new 96 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:20,880 age of superstition and of course the 97 00:05:29,270 --> 00:05:25,170 the thrust of your whole piece on the 98 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:29,280 punch there is how non-science is not 99 00:05:33,530 --> 00:05:31,710 just creeping into the door and sort of 100 00:05:35,410 --> 00:05:33,540 here already in making itself at home 101 00:05:38,390 --> 00:05:35,420 especially when it comes to medical care 102 00:05:40,340 --> 00:05:38,400 yes i must say that wasn't my title when 103 00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:40,350 i submitted at my title was check your 104 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:42,990 medical [\h__\h] meter that they changed 105 00:05:48,590 --> 00:05:46,050 it to for some reason but there was 106 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:48,600 indeed rust of it it's it's it's a 107 00:05:53,770 --> 00:05:51,210 worrying development oh it's it's not 108 00:05:56,570 --> 00:05:53,780 only the non-science is creeping into 109 00:05:59,570 --> 00:05:56,580 areas which rightfully ought to be 110 00:06:02,510 --> 00:05:59,580 scientific yeah it's that the people who 111 00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:02,520 are practicing lee is well they claim 112 00:06:08,630 --> 00:06:05,520 that their own serve alternative pursuit 113 00:06:10,430 --> 00:06:08,640 is fine and nonetheless as quickly as 114 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:10,440 they can adopting the trappings of 115 00:06:15,490 --> 00:06:12,210 science to give themselves a spurious 116 00:06:18,740 --> 00:06:15,500 respectability witness than the 117 00:06:21,230 --> 00:06:18,750 chiropractor's arms LaVon government so 118 00:06:23,750 --> 00:06:21,240 they can now call themselves ophtho yeah 119 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:23,760 and this is a very very good example 120 00:06:27,170 --> 00:06:25,650 actually that you've brought up here 121 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:27,180 with the chiropractors and I know it's 122 00:06:32,420 --> 00:06:29,850 it's one of the main arguments or what 123 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:32,430 main features of the piece you've 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:36,090 written is to the vast majority of the 125 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:39,690 public I daresay regard chiropractic as 126 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:42,570 another legitimate branch of the medical 127 00:06:48,830 --> 00:06:46,410 profession and and it's a troubling one 128 00:06:51,530 --> 00:06:48,840 because of course chiropractic itself is 129 00:06:53,690 --> 00:06:51,540 split into two camps there's the one 130 00:06:55,750 --> 00:06:53,700 which the kind of is the kind of 131 00:06:58,559 --> 00:06:55,760 Orthodox one which goes in full 132 00:07:02,159 --> 00:06:58,569 subluxation and mystical 133 00:07:04,909 --> 00:07:02,169 for most spiritual stuff about what 134 00:07:08,579 --> 00:07:04,919 happens in the spine and it's completely 135 00:07:09,929 --> 00:07:08,589 untestable and the other group they they 136 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:09,939 don't go in for that and they are much 137 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:11,770 more interested in the kind of physical 138 00:07:16,049 --> 00:07:14,770 aspect of manipulating the spine but of 139 00:07:18,299 --> 00:07:16,059 course if you keep going down that route 140 00:07:20,549 --> 00:07:18,309 and you're good at it you might as well 141 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:20,559 be a physiotherapist what's the need for 142 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:23,770 another pursuit which has its basis all 143 00:07:30,239 --> 00:07:27,610 this nonsensical kind of mystical carry 144 00:07:31,559 --> 00:07:30,249 on yes and that's that's absolutely 145 00:07:35,219 --> 00:07:31,569 right and of course this is the point 146 00:07:36,809 --> 00:07:35,229 which the again I used the term the 147 00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:36,819 majority of the public I think that is 148 00:07:43,559 --> 00:07:40,449 the case they simply do not know that 149 00:07:47,570 --> 00:07:43,569 there is this area of chiropractic which 150 00:07:51,359 --> 00:07:47,580 is basically based on magical thinking 151 00:07:54,839 --> 00:07:51,369 and it's more than that I mean there are 152 00:07:56,579 --> 00:07:54,849 some good spinal manipulators amongst 153 00:07:58,829 --> 00:07:56,589 the chiropractics I wouldn't deny that 154 00:08:01,379 --> 00:07:58,839 and some of them are good at treating 155 00:08:02,909 --> 00:08:01,389 what they do but if they are good at 156 00:08:06,629 --> 00:08:02,919 treating what they do because they're 157 00:08:08,969 --> 00:08:06,639 manipulating bones and joints just as 158 00:08:10,829 --> 00:08:08,979 bones and joints why not call of that 159 00:08:14,219 --> 00:08:10,839 why dress it up as something which is 160 00:08:18,899 --> 00:08:14,229 really really has its roots in something 161 00:08:20,670 --> 00:08:18,909 which is deeply unscientific and also 162 00:08:22,769 --> 00:08:20,680 goes long and things like this are 163 00:08:25,139 --> 00:08:22,779 chiropractic website to say they can 164 00:08:28,649 --> 00:08:25,149 cure ninety-five percent of illnesses 165 00:08:31,439 --> 00:08:28,659 and in a tackle they say oh we don't 166 00:08:33,209 --> 00:08:31,449 really believe that but you know there's 167 00:08:35,339 --> 00:08:33,219 no clear indication that they're backing 168 00:08:38,219 --> 00:08:35,349 away from it certainly is a body and 169 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:38,229 they're promoting the fact that they 170 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:40,689 want to be considered in in the 171 00:08:46,470 --> 00:08:43,120 forefront of health care and that's 172 00:08:48,210 --> 00:08:46,480 right and this word crops up again and 173 00:08:50,069 --> 00:08:48,220 again when I'm looking at these sort of 174 00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:50,079 people in their views is the word 175 00:08:58,110 --> 00:08:55,120 wellness yes what is peculiar and it's a 176 00:09:00,090 --> 00:08:58,120 difficult issue because you know I'm not 177 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:00,100 and I think others are not saying you 178 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:01,630 shouldn't go and see them by all means 179 00:09:06,750 --> 00:09:04,350 go and see them our protest is that 180 00:09:08,429 --> 00:09:06,760 science has a very different meaning 181 00:09:11,189 --> 00:09:08,439 science isn't the body of knowledge 182 00:09:12,060 --> 00:09:11,199 which is sort of right or wrong science 183 00:09:15,750 --> 00:09:12,070 is a way 184 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:15,760 testing any claim whether it's weathers 185 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:18,370 physiotherapy or medicine or drugs or 186 00:09:23,490 --> 00:09:20,470 nothing it's actually a system by which 187 00:09:27,330 --> 00:09:23,500 you can weed out and test what is 188 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:27,340 asserted now it of course like democracy 189 00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:29,530 is not perfect in that some people will 190 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:31,120 get one result and some will get another 191 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:33,730 but the thing is self-regulating in that 192 00:09:37,260 --> 00:09:35,710 you if you get people who run the same 193 00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:37,270 experiment and they get results that 194 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:39,460 disagree you've got to sort that out so 195 00:09:43,950 --> 00:09:41,410 the thing is constantly refining itself 196 00:09:46,230 --> 00:09:43,960 towards what is accurate now then what 197 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:46,240 science is it's a method of testing 198 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:50,170 assertion but to be testable you've got 199 00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:52,150 to be able to be framed in a way that is 200 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:54,100 testable and it's not testable for 201 00:10:00,180 --> 00:09:57,730 example to say God exists he may or may 202 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:00,190 not but you can't test it empirically so 203 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:02,830 it's not a scientific statement and you 204 00:10:07,260 --> 00:10:05,050 certainly can test whether or not a drug 205 00:10:08,970 --> 00:10:07,270 works because you set up clinical trials 206 00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:08,980 and you run experiments and you to find 207 00:10:13,170 --> 00:10:11,230 out that way that's scientific but you 208 00:10:15,780 --> 00:10:13,180 can't test whether somebody's got a kind 209 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:15,790 of mystical force in the backbone which 210 00:10:20,910 --> 00:10:18,850 directed by certain procedures will 211 00:10:23,610 --> 00:10:20,920 cause this or that effect it's just not 212 00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:23,620 testable so it's inherently an 213 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:26,440 unscientific practice if you cannot set 214 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:29,670 up a testable hypothesis which of course 215 00:10:36,690 --> 00:10:32,140 happens again and again and we can even 216 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:36,700 think about the other vaguely labeled 217 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:39,210 Eastern modalities which talk about 218 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:41,950 various types of energy and I think you 219 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:44,080 make the point in your article that the 220 00:10:48,900 --> 00:10:46,090 word energy is certainly not used in any 221 00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:48,910 meaningful sense 200 that's gonna be 222 00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:50,860 sort of a very catch phrase I used to be 223 00:10:55,770 --> 00:10:54,310 vibrations yes but you know the end of 224 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:55,780 people talking about the energy to get 225 00:11:00,660 --> 00:10:58,210 from crystal oh what what damned energy 226 00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:00,670 is a sound light and it's just it's a 227 00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:03,040 nonsense phrase and it's also an 228 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:05,200 untestable phrase so therefore it's 229 00:11:10,620 --> 00:11:08,200 Nonsuch and my quarrel with these things 230 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:10,630 is that they say well you can't test it 231 00:11:15,870 --> 00:11:14,050 and it's true and decides it's that's 232 00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:15,880 not what determines what science is I 233 00:11:21,780 --> 00:11:18,880 mean to say that the world is flat is a 234 00:11:24,690 --> 00:11:21,790 more scientific statement than to say 235 00:11:25,220 --> 00:11:24,700 subluxation cause of mystical forces to 236 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:25,230 do things 237 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,360 you better because you can taste with 238 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:29,760 all the world is flat no so it's a 239 00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:31,680 scientific statement although it's wrong 240 00:11:38,060 --> 00:11:34,140 because it is amenable to testing by 241 00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:38,070 science yeah but if I say you know my 242 00:11:42,260 --> 00:11:40,470 dog knows what I'm thinking it's really 243 00:11:43,550 --> 00:11:42,270 not testable so it's not a scientific 244 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:43,560 statement or where it may be true 245 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:45,810 another point you're you're bringing up 246 00:11:51,620 --> 00:11:48,570 of course is these people that seem to 247 00:11:53,950 --> 00:11:51,630 be gaining somewhat more acceptance 248 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:53,960 especially when they can call themselves 249 00:12:00,350 --> 00:11:57,090 doctor yes and that that's worrying 250 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:00,360 because it's like it's likely anti 251 00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:03,690 evolutionists now by all means believe 252 00:12:06,770 --> 00:12:05,220 that but if you're going to believe that 253 00:12:09,290 --> 00:12:06,780 don't go around calling yourself a 254 00:12:11,540 --> 00:12:09,300 creation scientist because at the same 255 00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:11,550 time as you are denying the validity of 256 00:12:16,730 --> 00:12:13,680 what science tells you and that's 257 00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:16,740 evolution you are nonetheless wanting to 258 00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:18,840 assume its respectability by taking its 259 00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:22,230 name and it's a bastardization of a word 260 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:24,030 science to apply it to stuff which is 261 00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:26,250 inherently unscientific now the same way 262 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:28,680 I think if you are going to be 263 00:12:34,430 --> 00:12:31,440 non-orthodox and deny the scientific 264 00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:34,440 processes that medicine and pharmacology 265 00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:37,350 and physiotherapy however imperfectly 266 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:40,620 must eventually wrist upon if you can't 267 00:12:45,140 --> 00:12:43,470 deny those don't then assume the 268 00:12:48,770 --> 00:12:45,150 trappings of wanting to call yourself 269 00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:48,780 doctor yeah and it's the studies of 270 00:12:54,530 --> 00:12:52,260 parasitism of Orthodoxy whilst at the 271 00:12:57,500 --> 00:12:54,540 same time denying that orthodoxy has the 272 00:12:59,570 --> 00:12:57,510 answers that he's wearing and it also is 273 00:13:01,460 --> 00:12:59,580 confusing because people in the general 274 00:13:03,170 --> 00:13:01,470 public go along and they see somebody 275 00:13:05,090 --> 00:13:03,180 called doctor and they don't know now if 276 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:05,100 they're dealing with a somebody's got a 277 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:09,450 PhD in oh it is a dentist or a vase or a 278 00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:12,530 chiropractor or a plumber the self 279 00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:16,160 awarded title to give yourself the 280 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:18,390 respectability that other people have 281 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:21,930 earned is I think an improper one and as 282 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:23,610 you point out in your article of course 283 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:25,650 that there this has been a long struggle 284 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:27,990 politically for the chiropractor's 285 00:13:32,510 --> 00:13:29,910 whereas a real doctor has a long 286 00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:32,520 struggle academically to actually learn 287 00:13:36,770 --> 00:13:34,830 the disciplines well that's right it's a 288 00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:36,780 meaningful academic term it is slightly 289 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:38,760 bedeviled i might say by the fact 290 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:42,090 those who have a PhD which is a non 291 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:44,730 medical degree are legitimately doctors 292 00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,890 because that's a doctorate whereas 293 00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:48,480 doctors it's actually it's actually 294 00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:50,760 occurred yet courtesy title a medical 295 00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:54,480 doctor has easily a Bachelor of surgery 296 00:14:01,340 --> 00:13:57,690 and a bachelor of medicine but no actual 297 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:01,350 doctorate we do accept the doctor is a 298 00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:03,450 title used for Medicaid but it's not 299 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:04,980 helped by broadening it into almost 300 00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:08,730 everything under the Sun I guess in a in 301 00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:11,220 a way it's it's a similar sort of thing 302 00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:13,320 that happens that when one walks into a 303 00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:15,990 pharmacy and looks at the shelf and can 304 00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:18,960 pick up a box of magic pills because 305 00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:20,700 you're in the pharmacy you there is a 306 00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:22,200 certain assumption on your part that 307 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,350 they must be well they must work in some 308 00:14:31,820 --> 00:14:27,600 as well yes and that's a very good point 309 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:31,830 because in fact yeah and they've been 310 00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:34,050 criticized for in fact bundling some of 311 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:36,060 the alternative and now demonstrably 312 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:39,090 harmful so-called natural mirror 313 00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:42,450 remedies some have been demonstrated to 314 00:14:45,790 --> 00:14:43,980 be sour harmful some of them are 315 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:45,800 certainly harmful if they're taken 316 00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:49,250 wrongly and some of them are completely 317 00:14:54,740 --> 00:14:52,380 ineffective but there they sit alongside 318 00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:54,750 the prescription counter and there's no 319 00:14:59,210 --> 00:14:57,510 distinction made and and I mean I've 320 00:15:02,120 --> 00:14:59,220 done pharmacology and I have trouble 321 00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,130 sometimes working out what's legitimize 322 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:04,560 not so god knows how you get on if you 323 00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:06,690 haven't done any you are at the mercy 324 00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:09,030 and that's probably a little harsh way 325 00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:11,100 how should turn to use a harsh way to 326 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:12,990 say it you're at the mercy of the person 327 00:15:16,940 --> 00:15:15,090 behind the counter if you go in there 328 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:16,950 and asking for advice and I can tell you 329 00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:19,890 from firsthand experience that that's a 330 00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:22,200 crapshoot you get a mixed bag either 331 00:15:26,210 --> 00:15:24,510 I've had the advice from somebody 332 00:15:29,630 --> 00:15:26,220 working in a pharmacy that homeopathy 333 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:29,640 works by metaphysics and well luckily I 334 00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:31,710 know what I what's what in this 335 00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:33,750 situation but Dysart's a mother walking 336 00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:36,510 in with a crying baby or someone looking 337 00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,830 for some medicine for their sick 338 00:15:41,090 --> 00:15:39,120 children or whatever the case may be 339 00:15:43,190 --> 00:15:41,100 they literally they're at the mercy of 340 00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:43,200 somebody behind the desk who may not 341 00:15:48,140 --> 00:15:45,080 know what the hell they're talking about 342 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:48,150 that can also be a problem with other 343 00:15:52,070 --> 00:15:48,750 author 344 00:15:53,510 --> 00:15:52,080 some practices for example of a know 345 00:15:55,490 --> 00:15:53,520 much or whether it's the same in 346 00:15:57,890 --> 00:15:55,500 Australia as it is in America but I 347 00:15:59,870 --> 00:15:57,900 suspect it's close but you're dealing 348 00:16:03,560 --> 00:15:59,880 with close to half a population of 349 00:16:06,290 --> 00:16:03,570 medicos who either don't believe in 350 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:06,300 evolution or believe in creation I think 351 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:08,100 a report came out the other day they 352 00:16:11,630 --> 00:16:09,930 showed that two-thirds of medical 353 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:11,640 students didn't know when to wash their 354 00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:15,090 hands so you actually have big problems 355 00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:18,660 within orthodoxy of people because I 356 00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:20,940 think we don't train them very well in 357 00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:24,060 some cases sometimes they themselves are 358 00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:26,160 not clear about the scientific basis of 359 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,980 their practice and they can't be if 360 00:16:34,090 --> 00:16:30,240 you've got mitigators who are 361 00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:34,100 nonetheless recommending anti-scientific 362 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:36,150 procedures ma'am you've got a bit of a 363 00:16:39,830 --> 00:16:38,010 conflict there and something that 364 00:16:41,330 --> 00:16:39,840 doesn't help it doesn't certainly 365 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:41,340 doesn't help the patient sort out what 366 00:16:45,650 --> 00:16:43,380 they're supposed to be doing and because 367 00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:45,660 they're people few people do science and 368 00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:47,580 because we in science haven't I think 369 00:16:51,740 --> 00:16:49,350 promoted their discipline and how it 370 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:51,750 works very well most people have 371 00:16:59,920 --> 00:16:54,470 absolutely no idea what you mean by 372 00:17:02,540 --> 00:16:59,930 evidence-based by peer review by 373 00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:02,550 testable hypothesis I mean these are 374 00:17:07,910 --> 00:17:05,160 just i attain phrases to people but they 375 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:07,920 lie at the heart of what is and what 376 00:17:13,670 --> 00:17:10,890 isn't scientific well a lot of people in 377 00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:13,680 my experience who are ignorant as to 378 00:17:18,290 --> 00:17:16,079 what science is simply regarded as 379 00:17:21,530 --> 00:17:18,300 another belief system I've had that 380 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:21,540 phone at me Minute Rice and you know 381 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:24,089 what this off postmodern age one is as 382 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:26,370 good as another yeah well you know you 383 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:28,410 are entitled to believe one or the other 384 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:32,010 but one if it adheres to the principles 385 00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:34,490 of the testable principles of science a 386 00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:36,900 legitimately called science and that 387 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:39,600 which cannot adhere to those cannot i 388 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:41,910 mean my students rise to training 389 00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:44,130 teaches had a great deal trouble with 390 00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:45,960 this have you said should you teach 391 00:17:51,530 --> 00:17:49,080 creationism in the science class and 392 00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:51,540 half of them did what journalists did 393 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:53,220 said oh you've got to keep an open line 394 00:17:58,430 --> 00:17:55,050 and provide both sides of the story 395 00:18:01,550 --> 00:17:58,440 right now both sides of a story are not 396 00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:01,560 equal if you have for example the same 397 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:02,550 thing is true of the 398 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:05,730 this hideous anti-vaccination network if 399 00:18:10,130 --> 00:18:07,890 you say to a journalist you got to 400 00:18:12,590 --> 00:18:10,140 provide both sides of the story they'll 401 00:18:14,270 --> 00:18:12,600 get a professor of vaccination on one 402 00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:14,280 side and then they say well who's the 403 00:18:18,010 --> 00:18:16,020 other side they go and pick any loony 404 00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:18,020 they like you oppose us vaccinations and 405 00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:21,660 acquaintance and give them equal time I 406 00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:24,150 mean if you say that the world is round 407 00:18:27,730 --> 00:18:25,830 does that mean you've got to go and find 408 00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:27,740 a flat earth and give them equal time 409 00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:31,980 it's a silly attempt to balance a huge 410 00:18:36,860 --> 00:18:34,080 weight of accumulated and verified 411 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:36,870 evidence against somebody who just has a 412 00:18:40,610 --> 00:18:38,610 crackpot theory moon does make for 413 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:40,620 entertaining television it makes for 414 00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:42,510 entertaining television and also the 415 00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:44,160 code of ethics for journalists says 416 00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:46,440 you've got to provide another point of 417 00:18:52,220 --> 00:18:50,100 view and so doing the best they can when 418 00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,230 they don't know what is a legitimate 419 00:18:58,850 --> 00:18:54,480 point of view they'll go and find an 420 00:19:00,440 --> 00:18:58,860 opponent and the opponents who are many 421 00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:00,450 of them of course in the alternative 422 00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:03,480 brigade are very skilled at manipulating 423 00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:05,840 leader media and lobbying and 424 00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:08,940 advertising and you find advertisements 425 00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:11,550 for these natural therapies because they 426 00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,080 have no ethical restrictions on 427 00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:15,600 advertising their services whereas 428 00:19:21,290 --> 00:19:18,960 doctors and lawyers how many yeah so 429 00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,300 it's a very uneven battle for the public 430 00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:23,280 mind and one which is being skillfully 431 00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:25,800 one but people have more to gain by 432 00:19:32,930 --> 00:19:29,600 winning the lobbying battle then by 433 00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:32,940 acquiring scientifically based skills 434 00:19:38,990 --> 00:19:35,520 the other thing is of course and it it 435 00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:39,000 puzzles me is why people seem more prone 436 00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:42,270 to believe the unorthodox and the 437 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:47,460 alternative then the verifiable and they 438 00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,130 just seem to be with a number of people 439 00:19:54,410 --> 00:19:51,660 quite a distinct preference for that 440 00:19:56,420 --> 00:19:54,420 just as you know a lot of people I mean 441 00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:56,430 there's no paper that runs now without a 442 00:20:01,400 --> 00:19:59,520 horoscope in it yeah it's absolute 443 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:01,410 nonsense but people love believing it so 444 00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:04,980 you wonder why as a species we have this 445 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:10,640 kind of preference for nonsense again 446 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:14,010 listeners can find your very interesting 447 00:20:18,150 --> 00:20:15,490 article it's at the punch 448 00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:18,160 punch Comte you and I think when they go 449 00:20:21,930 --> 00:20:19,600 there and they just search for your name 450 00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:21,940 rob morris and they'll find that article 451 00:20:28,410 --> 00:20:24,820 there is a string of comments going on 452 00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:28,420 forever are being posted up by people 453 00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,020 who less than complimentary about what 454 00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:34,240 you've said but you've certainly got a 455 00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:36,790 stack of supporters in there agreeing 456 00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:39,760 with or backing up your statements and 457 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:44,590 then I must say humbly is to my surprise 458 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:47,530 I thought I'd be flamed off the pages 459 00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:50,530 but most of the people responding agree 460 00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:53,590 and many of them are very cheesed off 461 00:20:58,830 --> 00:20:56,110 when they pay their rapidly increasing 462 00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:58,840 medical benefits bill that some of it is 463 00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,880 subsidizing this nonsense because the 464 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:02,559 medical benefits group want to get as 465 00:21:06,810 --> 00:21:04,330 many people in as they can so they'll 466 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:06,820 adopt all these alternative bits of 467 00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:09,130 nonsense and charge us and the 468 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:10,900 government for the privilege of doing so 469 00:21:16,350 --> 00:21:13,570 yeah it's a commercial decision to be 470 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:16,360 sure yeah a lot of respondents and take 471 00:21:21,150 --> 00:21:18,280 them like that and good on them good on 472 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:21,160 ax men this is another incidentally it's 473 00:21:25,620 --> 00:21:23,140 another push that we and Australian 474 00:21:27,570 --> 00:21:25,630 skeptics are pursuing is to try and get 475 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:27,580 health funds to realize the folly of 476 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:29,830 this but that's that's another battle 477 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:32,530 but since it's somewhat connected I 478 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:34,210 suppose but it's another disconnected 479 00:21:37,290 --> 00:21:35,590 and that's one that we are starting to 480 00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:37,300 look at her or we've got an awful lot of 481 00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:38,590 people who want to be behind this 482 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:41,320 campaign and we're still early I think 483 00:21:44,790 --> 00:21:43,150 building a voice and I hope that voice 484 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:44,800 will be influential enough to tackle 485 00:21:49,020 --> 00:21:47,110 some of these problems because too many 486 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:49,030 people have tactical tackled it as 487 00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:51,490 individuals good on them but you don't 488 00:21:55,169 --> 00:21:52,990 get a government to listen easily when 489 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:55,179 you're an individual so I hope you can 490 00:21:58,410 --> 00:21:57,010 get some universities and prestigious 491 00:22:00,210 --> 00:21:58,420 bodies and people you know what they're 492 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,220 talking about saying enough is enough I 493 00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,080 mean look we've already got 14 494 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:03,760 universities offering these courses 495 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:06,610 what's happening to our universe of 496 00:22:09,530 --> 00:22:08,170 these standards I mean they do it 497 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:09,540 because there's a quid in it but it's 498 00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:12,370 it's not a healthy development yes 499 00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:14,710 there's a university just recently 500 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:17,320 offering a course in energy medicine the 501 00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:19,570 study of energy medicine yeah well the 502 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:22,150 one that triggered this is the CQ you in 503 00:22:26,190 --> 00:22:23,770 Queensland is about to offer 504 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:26,200 chiropractic course next year and that's 505 00:22:31,380 --> 00:22:28,090 really I think triggered the reaction 506 00:22:32,730 --> 00:22:31,390 that got this this round started and of 507 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:32,740 course Rob there are other people 508 00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:35,650 involved in this campaign too yes so you 509 00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:37,390 can find some of their contributions on 510 00:22:41,490 --> 00:22:39,340 the other websites that are a bit like 511 00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:41,500 the punch this mine on the punch there's 512 00:22:48,030 --> 00:22:45,190 Loretta on crikey I think Alastair 513 00:22:50,669 --> 00:22:48,040 McClellan very well-versed in this 514 00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:50,679 problem he's got one on the conversation 515 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:53,200 and a great deal of reaction to all of 516 00:22:58,290 --> 00:22:56,410 them so it would be a good debate for 517 00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:58,300 people who are interested in this to get 518 00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:00,640 involved in particularly those who are 519 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:04,000 getting anxious about the kind of loss 520 00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:08,290 of focus of evidence-based practices in 521 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:09,940 Australia and how they're being 522 00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:12,970 submitted all right Rob well I'll 523 00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,980 certainly include all those links on the 524 00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,720 show notes and in our newsletter which 525 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:18,640 go out with the skeptic zone thank you 526 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:20,050 once again and I can't help thinking 527 00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,910 that if the curiosity show was still on 528 00:23:26,370 --> 00:23:23,679 air that more primary school kids would 529 00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:26,380 be better versed in science thank you 530 00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:28,390 very kind of you Rob Morrison thank you 531 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:44,789 you're listening to sep toid i'm brian 532 00:23:53,010 --> 00:23:47,710 donut from sep toy calm the tap-dancing 533 00:23:55,019 --> 00:23:53,020 Madonna of Aguas Calientes in 1953 while 534 00:23:58,110 --> 00:23:55,029 on a unicycle preaching tour of the 535 00:24:00,180 --> 00:23:58,120 Guatemalan Highlands two nuns reported a 536 00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:00,190 mysterious phenomenon at a roadside 537 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:04,360 shrine before their astonished eyes a 538 00:24:09,870 --> 00:24:07,090 statue of the Virgin Mary appeared to 539 00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:09,880 come to life climb down from its plinth 540 00:24:15,659 --> 00:24:13,120 and deliver messages from Jesus while 541 00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:15,669 simultaneously performing tap routines 542 00:24:21,210 --> 00:24:18,460 from classic Hollywood musicals the 543 00:24:24,450 --> 00:24:21,220 stunned nuns sisters gracias por nada 544 00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:24,460 and dolores de cabeza recounted their 545 00:24:29,010 --> 00:24:26,830 experience to the local bishop who 546 00:24:31,159 --> 00:24:29,020 listened intently then had the two 547 00:24:34,019 --> 00:24:31,169 committed to a home for the bewildered 548 00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:34,029 but word of the visions soon spread 549 00:24:39,690 --> 00:24:37,360 before long thousands were flocking to 550 00:24:42,830 --> 00:24:39,700 the shrine just outside the village of 551 00:24:45,659 --> 00:24:42,840 no lo creo over the following weeks 552 00:24:47,789 --> 00:24:45,669 believers claimed the Virgin expanded 553 00:24:51,419 --> 00:24:47,799 her repertoire to include everything 554 00:24:53,130 --> 00:24:51,429 from flamenco to classical ballet dozens 555 00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:53,140 of miracles were attributed to the 556 00:24:57,690 --> 00:24:55,120 Virgin people who had previously 557 00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:57,700 exhibited no dancing ability whatsoever 558 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:00,640 were suddenly expert in intricate 559 00:25:07,610 --> 00:25:04,510 rhombus exuberant salsas and much to the 560 00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:07,620 dismay of the local clergy steamy tangos 561 00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:10,799 but what did the observers really see 562 00:25:16,380 --> 00:25:14,529 did a stone statue of Mary really come 563 00:25:19,889 --> 00:25:16,390 to life and dance before an enraptured 564 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:19,899 audience well of course not it's a load 565 00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:27,370 of horse hi this is Tim Farley you 566 00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:29,140 probably know me from what's the harm 567 00:25:34,529 --> 00:25:31,929 net a catalogue of the real world harm 568 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:34,539 caused by lack of critical thinking but 569 00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:37,330 that's not my only project i present at 570 00:25:42,419 --> 00:25:40,240 skeptic events I post a daily skeptic 571 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:42,429 history fact on Twitter and Facebook and 572 00:25:45,779 --> 00:25:45,130 I blog about using new techniques on the 573 00:25:49,229 --> 00:25:45,789 internet too 574 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:49,239 vance skepticism come over to skep tools 575 00:26:09,529 --> 00:25:52,690 com and check out my latest ideas but 576 00:26:14,310 --> 00:26:12,359 and I'm pleased that once again once 577 00:26:16,769 --> 00:26:14,320 again as we do over the years we've 578 00:26:18,899 --> 00:26:16,779 caught up with dr. Paul Willis now 579 00:26:21,570 --> 00:26:18,909 happily ensconced in the beautiful city 580 00:26:23,729 --> 00:26:21,580 of Adelaide hello Paul how are you 581 00:26:25,859 --> 00:26:23,739 Richard I'm doing really well but more 582 00:26:29,219 --> 00:26:25,869 importantly how you now that you're no 583 00:26:32,479 --> 00:26:29,229 longer the the great frontman for the 584 00:26:35,789 --> 00:26:32,489 ABC science television show catalyst 585 00:26:39,299 --> 00:26:35,799 makes me sound incredible and look 586 00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,309 absolutely loving Adelaide and the 587 00:26:44,399 --> 00:26:41,200 position of God here is director of the 588 00:26:46,859 --> 00:26:44,409 Royal Institution is fantastic it's an 589 00:26:48,989 --> 00:26:46,869 opportunity to unparalleled 590 00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:48,999 opportunities to talk science to the 591 00:26:54,659 --> 00:26:51,039 world but particularly to Australians 592 00:26:57,229 --> 00:26:54,669 and and just try and weave signs into 593 00:26:59,969 --> 00:26:57,239 the fabric of our society you know and 594 00:27:02,159 --> 00:26:59,979 rational thoughts in there and skeptical 595 00:27:03,629 --> 00:27:02,169 thoughts in there all those things that 596 00:27:05,940 --> 00:27:03,639 mean so much to me I'll get to play with 597 00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:05,950 them all it's a good job it sounds like 598 00:27:10,589 --> 00:27:08,340 the ideal job for you but I do know that 599 00:27:13,379 --> 00:27:10,599 you had a very long and successful 600 00:27:16,259 --> 00:27:13,389 career on ABC television and I know you 601 00:27:19,710 --> 00:27:16,269 enjoyed that too oh yeah look I was at 602 00:27:21,509 --> 00:27:19,720 the ABC for 14 years most of that was on 603 00:27:25,139 --> 00:27:21,519 television first of all in quantum and 604 00:27:27,659 --> 00:27:25,149 then 10 years on catalyst and Delia it 605 00:27:29,489 --> 00:27:27,669 was a hell of a trip you know we did 606 00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:29,499 lots of interesting stories went to lots 607 00:27:35,009 --> 00:27:32,559 of interesting places but to be honest 608 00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:35,019 you know after 10 years it was time for 609 00:27:41,999 --> 00:27:38,529 something different time to explore new 610 00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:42,009 horizons and this opportunity is exactly 611 00:27:47,159 --> 00:27:44,799 that you know the chance to to do 612 00:27:49,009 --> 00:27:47,169 something similar but different time to 613 00:27:51,539 --> 00:27:49,019 do something a bit creative you notes 614 00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:51,549 it's just a logical progression in my 615 00:27:56,099 --> 00:27:53,830 career it sounds like a very good move 616 00:27:57,830 --> 00:27:56,109 indeed and we'll get back on to more 617 00:28:00,260 --> 00:27:57,840 about what you're doing 618 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:00,270 down there and adelaide soon just to 619 00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:02,250 recap because when we do catch up with 620 00:28:07,460 --> 00:28:04,950 you for some reason I don't know why the 621 00:28:08,990 --> 00:28:07,470 subject of creationism comes up now I'm 622 00:28:12,019 --> 00:28:09,000 just going to play a little clip of you 623 00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:12,029 and I chatting ten years ago and this is 624 00:28:18,769 --> 00:28:15,240 from the days of net FM when I did a 625 00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:18,779 show with good old Stefan cyka another a 626 00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:20,880 good test if I can just burn this money 627 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:22,230 does this one comes from paleontology 628 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:25,049 for a long time the creationist has been 629 00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:26,490 saying well you know something that's 630 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:29,220 complicated as a bird's wing like half a 631 00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:30,690 wings not going to work so you can't 632 00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:32,760 have half a bird's wing and so therefore 633 00:28:36,529 --> 00:28:34,710 you evolutionist show me half a bird's 634 00:28:39,889 --> 00:28:36,539 wing and I believe that they evolved 635 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:39,899 from something else yep only in 1999 636 00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:42,330 core dipteryx was found in China it's a 637 00:28:48,260 --> 00:28:46,080 small dinosaur with hard swing it is the 638 00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:48,270 big it is it is like God's on our side 639 00:28:54,139 --> 00:28:50,190 he's actually giving us all the good it 640 00:28:56,990 --> 00:28:54,149 is hallelujah swagger to these guys is 641 00:29:00,110 --> 00:28:57,000 courageous for hell and unlike you know 642 00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:00,120 then they say will okay so no it's a 643 00:29:03,769 --> 00:29:01,529 bird that's lost its you know that's 644 00:29:05,690 --> 00:29:03,779 this longer swing at the time he sent me 645 00:29:07,460 --> 00:29:05,700 back if their mutant because like it's 646 00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:07,470 also got a reptiles tail it's got a 647 00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:08,940 reptile skull it's got all these 648 00:29:12,409 --> 00:29:10,470 dinosaur features if it didn't have the 649 00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:12,419 feathers on it and we wouldn't know that 650 00:29:16,220 --> 00:29:14,580 it was a dart at the delay again further 651 00:29:18,289 --> 00:29:16,230 finna day so all those people out there 652 00:29:20,299 --> 00:29:18,299 when the Christian signs bus comes your 653 00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:20,309 way the creation of science I creation 654 00:29:24,139 --> 00:29:22,260 creative innovation for creation let's 655 00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:24,149 not put the word sites in there let's 656 00:29:27,649 --> 00:29:25,500 just take that away from when the 657 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:27,659 creationist bus comes your way get out 658 00:29:32,269 --> 00:29:29,730 your eggs and pelham yes it's a good 659 00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:32,279 attracts you swine in fact it's good 660 00:29:39,019 --> 00:29:35,279 into thing so Paul that was ten years 661 00:29:41,419 --> 00:29:39,029 ago when you were heavily involved in 662 00:29:43,090 --> 00:29:41,429 battling the creationists and throwing 663 00:29:46,580 --> 00:29:43,100 eggs at them or whatever the case may be 664 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:46,590 what's changed in the last 10 years in 665 00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:48,210 the great fight that we have against 666 00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:51,270 these people you know I hate to say I 667 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:54,500 was right but it actually got worse 668 00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,970 because particularly in the United 669 00:30:03,560 --> 00:29:59,039 States there garnering all kinds of 670 00:30:05,419 --> 00:30:03,570 political support there within the last 671 00:30:10,019 --> 00:30:05,429 10 years we've seen the rise of 672 00:30:12,479 --> 00:30:10,029 intelligent design which is it just 673 00:30:16,830 --> 00:30:12,489 creationism in a cheap tuxedo that's 674 00:30:18,810 --> 00:30:16,840 what they say yeah yeah and and they're 675 00:30:20,879 --> 00:30:18,820 quite well resourced and you know if 676 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:20,889 it's like that game what do you call 677 00:30:25,769 --> 00:30:23,710 them whack-a-mole with you try and like 678 00:30:29,009 --> 00:30:25,779 them and every time you hit 12 others 679 00:30:31,469 --> 00:30:29,019 pop up and I've always said that we will 680 00:30:34,649 --> 00:30:31,479 never win against the creationist but if 681 00:30:38,639 --> 00:30:34,659 we stop fighting we will lose yeah and 682 00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:38,649 it's a loss we cannot afford we it's 683 00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:42,129 hard enough to educate kids as to what 684 00:30:46,739 --> 00:30:44,919 is and what isn't science and what is 685 00:30:51,049 --> 00:30:46,749 and what isn't rational thinking and 686 00:30:55,379 --> 00:30:51,059 when you stir into the science classroom 687 00:30:58,139 --> 00:30:55,389 or any classroom the whole gobbledygook 688 00:31:01,499 --> 00:30:58,149 mixed up bag of illogical and fallacious 689 00:31:03,959 --> 00:31:01,509 wrong arguments that is creationism it's 690 00:31:06,899 --> 00:31:03,969 just it's creating a handicap for the 691 00:31:09,690 --> 00:31:06,909 whole of society it's that's very true 692 00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:09,700 and it's it's all the more galling when 693 00:31:14,159 --> 00:31:12,070 you think and consider over the last 10 694 00:31:16,979 --> 00:31:14,169 years since we originally spoke on the 695 00:31:19,979 --> 00:31:16,989 subject the advances and the discoveries 696 00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:19,989 that must have been made yeah sure I 697 00:31:26,999 --> 00:31:22,960 mean clip you just played about corded 698 00:31:28,589 --> 00:31:27,009 tricks since that went to air ten years 699 00:31:31,019 --> 00:31:28,599 ago cut still can't believe it's ding 700 00:31:35,399 --> 00:31:31,029 either you and I actually look younger 701 00:31:38,849 --> 00:31:35,409 Richard we do but you know since that 702 00:31:40,829 --> 00:31:38,859 time a whole load more fossils have come 703 00:31:46,769 --> 00:31:40,839 out of that deposit early earning in 704 00:31:50,879 --> 00:31:46,779 China and every conceivable stage from a 705 00:31:53,339 --> 00:31:50,889 small Feder furry dinosaur through to a 706 00:31:55,349 --> 00:31:53,349 fully fledged bird every conceivable 707 00:31:58,229 --> 00:31:55,359 step of the way as proceed preserved 708 00:32:00,239 --> 00:31:58,239 they're not just in the skeletons but 709 00:32:04,229 --> 00:32:00,249 also in the development of feathers 710 00:32:06,989 --> 00:32:04,239 themselves yeah you couldn't ask for 711 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:06,999 more intermediate forms to demonstrate 712 00:32:14,909 --> 00:32:10,450 how one form got to another form and yet 713 00:32:17,099 --> 00:32:14,919 you may as well be Titus trying to 714 00:32:19,589 --> 00:32:17,109 convince a creationist of the skies red 715 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:19,599 or as you once said it's like trying to 716 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:22,690 nail jelly to a wall it is there is the 717 00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:23,330 area 718 00:32:27,970 --> 00:32:25,340 they are immune to reason they are 719 00:32:32,350 --> 00:32:27,980 immune to rational argument it actually 720 00:32:34,510 --> 00:32:32,360 takes a Herculean effort to overturn 721 00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:34,520 that mindset because you're not just 722 00:32:39,130 --> 00:32:37,190 trying to establish a few facts you're 723 00:32:41,530 --> 00:32:39,140 actually trying to completely rework 724 00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:41,540 their whole worldview that's no small 725 00:32:46,690 --> 00:32:43,760 job I haven't found the formula for 726 00:32:48,130 --> 00:32:46,700 doing that yet now let's get back to 727 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:48,140 what you're doing at the moment so you 728 00:32:52,330 --> 00:32:49,850 made the big move from the big smoke 729 00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:52,340 here in Sydney to the tilly not so big 730 00:32:57,550 --> 00:32:54,980 smoke in Adelaide yeah but I guess one 731 00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:57,560 of the advantages of that is though no 732 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:02,240 more Sydney traffic jams yeah well my 733 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:04,310 wife kind of put it very well when we 734 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:07,010 came back to Sydney to a weekend visit 735 00:33:11,890 --> 00:33:09,530 about six weeks after we arrived in that 736 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:11,900 Elaine and on the saturday i said to her 737 00:33:16,390 --> 00:33:13,730 so what's it like coming back to Sydney 738 00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:16,400 and she said well it's a bit like going 739 00:33:21,370 --> 00:33:19,640 out to lunch with an old boyfriend in on 740 00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:21,380 the drive there you're thinking things 741 00:33:25,450 --> 00:33:23,360 won't be so bad you know we had a great 742 00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:25,460 time together you never know might get 743 00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:27,350 lucky things might spark up again and 744 00:33:32,050 --> 00:33:29,270 then halfway through lunch you know why 745 00:33:33,610 --> 00:33:32,060 you dropped in we we didn't even get out 746 00:33:36,190 --> 00:33:33,620 of the airport in Sydney and would have 747 00:33:37,780 --> 00:33:36,200 stuck in the traffic jam yeah still yet 748 00:33:40,420 --> 00:33:37,790 to experience one here in adelaide but 749 00:33:41,950 --> 00:33:40,430 look I can bang on about a delayed until 750 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:41,960 the cows come home but the only thing 751 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:44,210 you need to know Richard is it within an 752 00:33:48,580 --> 00:33:46,130 hour of me here and in the middle of a 753 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:48,590 delay a 300 of the best seller doors on 754 00:33:53,620 --> 00:33:51,650 the fact after reason do you need to 755 00:33:56,050 --> 00:33:53,630 live here now tell me more about what 756 00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:56,060 you're doing professionally there what 757 00:34:00,610 --> 00:33:58,490 the Royal Institution this is the first 758 00:34:02,590 --> 00:34:00,620 time that a sister organization of the 759 00:34:05,050 --> 00:34:02,600 Royal Institution in Great Britain has 760 00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:05,060 been set up now they've been going for 761 00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:07,340 two hundred and twelve years they're 762 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:09,230 responsible for ten elements on the 763 00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:12,890 periodic table including sodium and 14 764 00:34:18,670 --> 00:34:16,730 Nobel prizes we've been going since 2007 765 00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:18,680 and so we haven't got any elements or a 766 00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:21,440 Nobel prizes I'm not yet but you know it 767 00:34:26,050 --> 00:34:23,350 gives us something to aim for yeah and 768 00:34:28,420 --> 00:34:26,060 principally these the way to think about 769 00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:28,430 it is not a lot of people particularly 770 00:34:32,590 --> 00:34:29,660 Australia have heard of the Royal 771 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:32,600 Institution in great room but it's kind 772 00:34:38,139 --> 00:34:35,450 of in a way a companion organization to 773 00:34:41,169 --> 00:34:38,149 royal society more society is about 774 00:34:44,379 --> 00:34:41,179 doing science the royal institution is 775 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:44,389 about communicating science and the way 776 00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:46,970 that most people would anybody who's 777 00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:48,649 spent any time in England would know of 778 00:34:52,450 --> 00:34:50,089 the Royal Institution to the christmas 779 00:34:55,690 --> 00:34:52,460 lectures that are held every year on BBC 780 00:34:58,329 --> 00:34:55,700 and these are these actually go back to 781 00:34:59,560 --> 00:34:58,339 Faraday he used to give the original 782 00:35:03,480 --> 00:34:59,570 Christmas lectures at the Royal 783 00:35:06,130 --> 00:35:03,490 Institution in London and every year a 784 00:35:08,530 --> 00:35:06,140 celebrated scientists will give I think 785 00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:08,540 there's six in a serious lectures over 786 00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:11,150 the Christmas break on a particular area 787 00:35:20,829 --> 00:35:16,400 of science well anyway and to cut a long 788 00:35:23,170 --> 00:35:20,839 story short the South Australia was the 789 00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:23,180 first place to get the first sister 790 00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:26,240 organization of the RI and so far the 791 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:30,079 only as i said we started in 2007 we've 792 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:32,210 been in this magnificent building that 793 00:35:35,770 --> 00:35:34,490 you can see behind me here because i 794 00:35:37,569 --> 00:35:35,780 should tell our listeners that we're 795 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:37,579 actually video each other at the moment 796 00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:39,890 so i can see various people wandering 797 00:35:45,309 --> 00:35:41,599 past you in the corridor carrying a 798 00:35:47,170 --> 00:35:45,319 strange antics yeah you're not seeing a 799 00:35:49,569 --> 00:35:47,180 building at its best but no we've been 800 00:35:53,650 --> 00:35:49,579 in here since 2009 and it's the original 801 00:35:55,410 --> 00:35:53,660 Stock Exchange building for a delay the 802 00:35:59,200 --> 00:35:55,420 building was built in nineteen oh one 803 00:36:02,920 --> 00:35:59,210 with a great expense we've been able to 804 00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,930 redevelop half the building with all the 805 00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:04,640 latest technology and essentially we've 806 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:07,760 got a fully automated television studio 807 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:10,730 which can broadcast live to the Internet 808 00:36:16,359 --> 00:36:12,650 in high definition on a five cameras 809 00:36:20,620 --> 00:36:16,369 which feed wow so that's become the 810 00:36:25,089 --> 00:36:20,630 center of our our outreach you know we 811 00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:25,099 can have a well if I'm give you an 812 00:36:31,059 --> 00:36:28,790 example on Tower day so the 28 of the 813 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:31,069 synth which is tower which is the 814 00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:32,810 circumference of a circle divided by the 815 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:35,030 radius instead of the diameter you know 816 00:36:41,410 --> 00:36:38,210 the things that math nerd 09 well it's 817 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:41,420 how they we had some musicians from the 818 00:36:47,530 --> 00:36:43,930 elder Conservatorium come over and 819 00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:47,540 perform some musical pieces inspired by 820 00:36:51,230 --> 00:36:48,390 mathematics 821 00:36:53,809 --> 00:36:51,240 including the first 130 places of Tao 822 00:36:56,420 --> 00:36:53,819 puts music right it was a Tuesday 823 00:37:00,890 --> 00:36:56,430 lunchtime and we had a live audience 824 00:37:04,549 --> 00:37:00,900 downstairs of six but because we could 825 00:37:05,839 --> 00:37:04,559 record it live to the internet or put it 826 00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:05,849 out live to the Internet and then 827 00:37:11,299 --> 00:37:08,760 putting up a recording of that we 828 00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:11,309 actually scored more than 10,000 hits 829 00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:14,220 worldwide within 24 hours that's worth 830 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:16,440 so yeah you know the thought that there 831 00:37:21,259 --> 00:37:18,930 is someone in Colombia tuning in to 832 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:21,269 avant-garde music coming out of my 833 00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,410 auditorium in in less than a day I you 834 00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:27,599 know that's the power of what we can do 835 00:37:34,549 --> 00:37:30,180 here so we're developing all sorts of 836 00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:34,559 stuff and if I can just put in a big 837 00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:38,099 plug here to your listeners look tuning 838 00:37:43,220 --> 00:37:41,400 to the our isles website because we we 839 00:37:46,130 --> 00:37:43,230 have an event every week at least 840 00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:46,140 sometimes two events a week that go live 841 00:37:51,950 --> 00:37:49,049 to the internet and so you've got Q&A 842 00:37:53,749 --> 00:37:51,960 style forums where you can actually feed 843 00:37:55,579 --> 00:37:53,759 back into it in real time no matter 844 00:37:58,670 --> 00:37:55,589 where you are you can feed your 845 00:38:00,440 --> 00:37:58,680 questions to our panel like we just this 846 00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:00,450 week we had a really good discussion on 847 00:38:05,329 --> 00:38:03,000 world population how many people can the 848 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:05,339 world taken what is what are the trends 849 00:38:09,890 --> 00:38:07,410 in world population why is the world 850 00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:09,900 population all this sort of stuff we're 851 00:38:15,289 --> 00:38:12,720 able to air and a town hall-style across 852 00:38:18,740 --> 00:38:15,299 the country so do tuning have a look at 853 00:38:20,559 --> 00:38:18,750 what we're up to and good it I'm going 854 00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:20,569 to give the URL don't edit this bit 855 00:38:29,329 --> 00:38:25,470 don't worry our aisles that's our I aus 856 00:38:30,980 --> 00:38:29,339 org a year bookmark the site and come 857 00:38:32,359 --> 00:38:30,990 back folks because we're going to be 858 00:38:35,269 --> 00:38:32,369 doing lots of interesting stuff in the 859 00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,279 future well that certainly will be a 860 00:38:39,529 --> 00:38:37,440 sight worth bookmarking and I'll put 861 00:38:41,329 --> 00:38:39,539 that out on the newsletter and in the 862 00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:41,339 show notes just in case you didn't get 863 00:38:44,329 --> 00:38:42,990 that but of course since we're going to 864 00:38:46,549 --> 00:38:44,339 repeat it before the end of the 865 00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:46,559 interview I'm sure you will it sounds 866 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:48,089 like you've been having a successful 867 00:38:51,980 --> 00:38:49,890 time you vote you haven't been there too 868 00:38:54,099 --> 00:38:51,990 long but I can see that you're already 869 00:38:59,089 --> 00:38:54,109 settling in how else can the public 870 00:39:01,090 --> 00:38:59,099 become involved well if you're not in a 871 00:39:04,690 --> 00:39:01,100 delight then you need to get 872 00:39:07,540 --> 00:39:04,700 to our Facebook sites and other online 873 00:39:09,460 --> 00:39:07,550 social activities in order to keep up 874 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:09,470 with what we're doing and as I said 875 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:11,810 there are ways over the Internet of 876 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:14,570 interacting live with what we do and of 877 00:39:20,740 --> 00:39:17,810 course there's an open invitation to you 878 00:39:23,290 --> 00:39:20,750 and the skeptics I want you guys over 879 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:23,300 here to do a show that we can put live 880 00:39:28,060 --> 00:39:25,250 out across Australia or maybe turn into 881 00:39:29,950 --> 00:39:28,070 a DVD that can be so circulated so are 882 00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:29,960 you interested you don't have to ask me 883 00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:32,720 twice all that sounds that sounds like 884 00:39:39,250 --> 00:39:36,320 an excellent project sometime in 2012 885 00:39:41,350 --> 00:39:39,260 when I'm not in some far-flung corner of 886 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:41,360 the earth globe trotting over I've been 887 00:39:44,770 --> 00:39:43,130 following your tweets and i'm trying to 888 00:39:48,460 --> 00:39:44,780 figure out which continents you haven't 889 00:39:52,750 --> 00:39:48,470 been to Antarctica yeah been there done 890 00:39:54,670 --> 00:39:52,760 yeah idea how many times 70 you're 891 00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:54,680 kidding you've been to Antarctica seven 892 00:40:01,870 --> 00:39:58,640 times yes Cole really yeah you shocked 893 00:40:03,310 --> 00:40:01,880 me as I me yeah and then just the side 894 00:40:05,830 --> 00:40:03,320 note to that of course you would tell me 895 00:40:08,170 --> 00:40:05,840 one so I could have even been your first 896 00:40:10,270 --> 00:40:08,180 trip down there you walking along and 897 00:40:12,850 --> 00:40:10,280 you found was that a plesiosaur 898 00:40:15,940 --> 00:40:12,860 something in wonderful oh we found 899 00:40:17,650 --> 00:40:15,950 pleasing sores down there incredible 900 00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:17,660 fossils if you go to the right places 901 00:40:22,270 --> 00:40:20,240 there you know our untouched fossil 902 00:40:24,460 --> 00:40:22,280 fields just bristling with all sorts of 903 00:40:26,980 --> 00:40:24,470 interesting marine creatures and that 904 00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:26,990 also stumbled across a meteorite a 905 00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,950 couple of years back and unfortunately I 906 00:40:35,770 --> 00:40:32,720 couldn't collect it at that time and by 907 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:35,780 the time I got back there couldn't 908 00:40:40,390 --> 00:40:39,050 relocate that specific specimen found 909 00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:40,400 some other stuff that i thought was 910 00:40:45,550 --> 00:40:44,000 meteorite collected about two kilos and 911 00:40:46,930 --> 00:40:45,560 blunt them all the way back to Australia 912 00:40:48,970 --> 00:40:46,940 and know they were actually just rocks 913 00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:48,980 but the other one was a meteorite yes of 914 00:40:53,350 --> 00:40:51,440 course it was attached to prove it but 915 00:40:56,170 --> 00:40:53,360 these wonderful fields of fossils down 916 00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,180 there um you can't just go down and 917 00:41:01,210 --> 00:40:58,880 plunder them can you no no and that's 918 00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:01,220 one reason why they're so fabulous you 919 00:41:05,290 --> 00:41:03,440 know there used to be fabulous fields of 920 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:05,300 fossils all over the planet but people 921 00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:06,530 have gone out there and collected all 922 00:41:10,990 --> 00:41:08,780 the stuff off the surface whereas you go 923 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:11,000 to a place like seymour island and while 924 00:41:16,140 --> 00:41:12,730 a couple 925 00:41:19,110 --> 00:41:16,150 of or very few paleontologists have been 926 00:41:22,740 --> 00:41:19,120 able to get there and do some sample 927 00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:22,750 collecting and most people simply can't 928 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:26,470 get there but even if you can get there 929 00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:28,450 there are restrictions on you picking 930 00:41:32,340 --> 00:41:30,220 the stuff up and taking it away yeah 931 00:41:34,740 --> 00:41:32,350 added to that the fact that there's no 932 00:41:38,070 --> 00:41:34,750 grass there's no bushes there's no soil 933 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:38,080 and so if there's no ice you are seeing 934 00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:41,170 just the fossils and the rocks so it's 935 00:41:48,540 --> 00:41:44,110 it's a stunning thing good to see you 936 00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:48,550 going back unfortunately I'm not on the 937 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:51,730 schedule at the moment because I've got 938 00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:54,210 my hands full running this place and 939 00:41:58,350 --> 00:41:56,470 bringing it up to speed but I do hope to 940 00:42:02,550 --> 00:41:58,360 go back one day it's one of those places 941 00:42:04,650 --> 00:42:02,560 that once it's got its claws in you they 942 00:42:06,510 --> 00:42:04,660 don't come out you know you can put 943 00:42:08,670 --> 00:42:06,520 Antarctica in the boy but you can't take 944 00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:08,680 it back out again and I dearly love to 945 00:42:13,290 --> 00:42:10,720 get them love to take my little bloke 946 00:42:16,530 --> 00:42:13,300 down there and show him around yeah and 947 00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:16,540 me too while you're at it oh yeah sure 948 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:21,280 oh yeah yeah always have time yeah Paul 949 00:42:28,890 --> 00:42:24,370 the website once again oh yeah that 950 00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,900 website is RI a USO org got a you folks 951 00:42:34,980 --> 00:42:30,880 run along to the website have a look 952 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:34,990 enjoy the wonderful and free information 953 00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:36,970 and interactive information put out by 954 00:42:40,830 --> 00:42:39,520 the institution and dr. Paul Willis a 955 00:42:42,930 --> 00:42:40,840 pleasure to catch up with you again 956 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:42,940 let's do it again in another 10 years 957 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:45,730 well one you come over to my place and 958 00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:47,530 we'll start investigating some of those 959 00:42:59,009 --> 00:42:49,270 wineries that sounds like a good idea 960 00:43:04,210 --> 00:43:02,049 hi my name is Erica dining and I 961 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:04,220 recently published a book my dad is 962 00:43:08,829 --> 00:43:07,010 Brian Dunning from skype.com the title 963 00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:08,839 of my book is polar bear in the trial of 964 00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:11,599 leadership you can find it on amazon com 965 00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:13,430 or through the link at skeptic zoned out 966 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:15,920 TV it is an adventure novel about the 967 00:43:20,049 --> 00:43:17,930 trials of a group of animals trying to 968 00:43:21,970 --> 00:43:20,059 escape a corrupt Queen this book is 969 00:43:23,859 --> 00:43:21,980 great for families adolescents and 970 00:43:26,049 --> 00:43:23,869 children alike and here it is again 971 00:43:42,180 --> 00:43:26,059 polar bear in the trial of leadership by 972 00:43:48,130 --> 00:43:45,279 thank you for listening to the skeptic 973 00:43:52,690 --> 00:43:48,140 zone once again don't forget you can bid 974 00:43:54,819 --> 00:43:52,700 on Maynard classics and skip toid 3 the 975 00:43:56,769 --> 00:43:54,829 whole kit and caboodle the CD 976 00:43:58,809 --> 00:43:56,779 autographed by main art himself and 977 00:44:01,930 --> 00:43:58,819 sceptile III is autographed by Brian 978 00:44:04,180 --> 00:44:01,940 Dunning and yours truly that will help 979 00:44:07,569 --> 00:44:04,190 may not get to Tam 10 so you can do 980 00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:07,579 wonderful reports and interviews for you 981 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:10,700 to enjoy and listen to I'm still not 982 00:44:15,130 --> 00:44:13,490 sure who that Brian donut was in the 983 00:44:18,279 --> 00:44:15,140 middle of the show if you have an idea 984 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:18,289 why don't you tweet it tweet here is at 985 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:20,930 skeptic zone if you think you know who 986 00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:23,410 might that might be and I bet you don't 987 00:44:29,980 --> 00:44:27,920 have a guess have a tweet but until next 988 00:44:36,970 --> 00:44:29,990 week this is Richard Saunders signing 989 00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:36,980 off from Sydney Australia you've been 990 00:44:44,769 --> 00:44:40,250 listening to the skeptic zone visit our 991 00:44:47,259 --> 00:44:44,779 website at www skeptics on TV for